BRICK BY BRICK: WRITING EMPIRE THE MUSICAL

INTERVIEW: Caroline Sherman and Robert Hull

BY RYAN M. LUÉVANO

Co-creators Caroline Sherman and Robert Hull began the tall order of writing Empire the musical in 1999, a show recounting the struggle to design and build the world’s tallest Skyscraper during the Great Depression. Since its creation Empire has been performed and work-shopped all over the country for refinement and reception. The first reading was held May 14, 2001 at the Coronet Theatre in Los Angeles, a second was held May 29, 2001 at the York Theatre in Manhattan, then the show premiered at the 99-seat Hudson Backstage Theatre in Hollywood, CA, in April 2003.

Empire persevered with coast-to-coast readings and performances leading to its current debut at the La Mirada Theatre for the Performing Arts opening on January 22, 2016. In anticipation for this 2016 production I had the opportunity to discuss the journey of Empire with co-creators Caroline Sherman and Robert Hull who share their inspirations, challenges, visions and creative process behind bringing this big musical into fruition.

What are each of your backgrounds in terms of theater and creating new musicals?

C: We have no backgrounds.

R: I was a music major in school. I graduated from the Jazz and Contemporary music program at the New School University in New York City; I went to UCLA my first years, but then transferred there after. I worked on both the creative and the business side for this volatile business. I went to law school and became a lawyer and did music projects on the side.

C: I’m a professional moocher—that’s how I get by. The law thing is nice, but if you can stay in spare rooms and keep making music and writing, it’s pretty nice.

The cast working with director/choreographer Marcia Milgrom Dodge. Photo Credit: Ricky Bulda.

How did you two meet?

C: We’re two Jews who met in church. We both were struggling with our writing and music careers so we took jobs at St. Barts Church at 50^th and Park Ave. We met there and eventually shared our true passion: writing musicals. Then we wrote our first show, a children’s musical called Diggy Hoffen Pepper Zee and The Colors of The Rainbow. We did that in our spare time and then we stopped doing the real thing and only did the spare time thing and stopped making a living, which was brilliant.

R: Of course when I met my wife I had to start making a living again.

What inspired you to write Empire? Why tell this story?

C: One of my random jobs was writing a tour for a cruise around NYC. In researching I discovered the story of the Race to the Sky between The Manhattan Company Building, Chrysler and the Empire State Building. As Bobby and I looked into it some more, we thought it was wonderful that people were pursuing dreams in a time of great despair, during the Great Depression. It’s easy to be up when everyone else is up, what’s so hard about that? But what interested us more is: what does it take to be hopeful when everybody’s down? Who are those people who choose hope? It’s a love story.

R: I love history. And the very notion of setting this in The Depression against the Empire State Building, with these very human stories is thrilling to me.

When writing Empire where did you start?

C: We always start with the characters. Who do we want to see doing what? What do they want? And what happens to them? And how can we make it really difficult for it to happen to them? Then we begin plotting out where we want to go in a connect-the-dots fashion, and then we start writing the songs. We get into the emotions of the characters, the relationships and conversations of the characters right away.

How do you both work together as composers, lyricist and librettist?

C: We’re both driven by songwriting. Usually one person does book, one person does lyrics and another does music, but because we both do everything the process is very organic for us. It all just comes flowing out of us in one fell swoop. We both have very relaxed brains and we’re not perfectionist. It’s a lovely combination of reaching out for what we hear, putting it down and putting it together. We’re setting the stage for a bunch of great talent to come together on what we hope is fertile ground and create this project together.

Empire rehearsal. Photo Credit: Ricky Bulda.

How do you write songs together? Which comes first, music or lyrics?

R: Every single song’s process is different. Given that we both have extremely complementary skill sets. Sometimes I’m the genesis of a song, sometimes Caroline is the genesis, or we pass it off to the other and the other works on it. If we’re not in the same room together, we send emails and recordings. Writing songs with Caroline is so much fun, it’s always different.

What are the biggest changes you made based on all the workshops and tryouts?

C: Not even exaggerating, we wrote 100 songs. And we’re down to 16 in our current show. So you can imagine what the discard pile looks like. What we’ve learned along the way is that one of the most important things in trying to build a musical is to find the right people at the right time to create the right show.

R: It was constantly changing. We modified characters and even eliminated characters.

C: The worst is saying goodbye to a character we love. We also try to throw away a favorite shirt each month, just to stay in the habit.

R: We’re very unsentimental about our work, we love it, but at the same time ultimately the best idea wins. We’ll write songs that we’re extremely fond of that will land on the ash heap because they just don’t work and at the end of the day we’re willing to do that. We’re always in pursuit of making the best show that we can make, most entertaining, most enjoyable, and most thoughtful.

Why haven’t you tried to take this to Broadway sooner?

C: The show hasn’t been ready until now. We have a lot of forward energy, we like to just keep moving forward and at times, we have gotten a little ahead of ourselves. But now the show’s ready. And we are so thankful to the lead producers Ricky Stevens and Sue Vaccaro because they have the courage to take on an original big musical written by a lawyer and a moocher. They had a vision for this show; it took Ricky and Sue to get this done. We’re growing old on hold, when we started this we were young now you’re gonna have to help me to my seat on opening night.

Empire rehearsal. Photo Credit: Ricky Bulda.

Do you read the reviews about your show? Is that something you care about?

C: Only the ones our mothers write. Who are we writing for really? Our parents. You have to write for yourself, your family and your friends. Our goal is: how can I add to someone’s life for two hours? We want people to come and have a great time. That’s who we write for.

R: All of that is very true of course. I may be a bit more vain than my wonderful partner ‘cause I look at reviews to see what comments they have so I can think about them. I look at everything as an opportunity to make the show better or to acknowledge the places where the show is just right.

C: We read the reviews, but one of the problems we had was that we listened to everybody and we took everybody’s notes and you can go too far with that sometimes.

Given that Empire’s choreography was the most celebrated aspect of the show in the past, will you explore the storytelling in movement more in this version?

C: The answer is a big yes. We think our director/choreographer Marcia Milgrom Dodge is a genius.

R: And even better than being a genius she’s a kindred spirit, she harnesses her genius and her abilities in a way that we think fits the sensibility of the show almost more than anyone we’ve ever worked with on any level. Dance is heightened in this show. This is a big dance show with lots of big dance moments that add excitement and energy to the show that we just love.

Empire dance rehearsal. Photo Credit: Ricky Bulda.

Any final thoughts about the show you’d like to share?

C: What Marcia and Sarvia Goetz (our music director) have done so well is make the show build and build. Each scene is better than the next. You’re going to burn calories by the end of this show. Whether you’re skinny, fat, or anything in between you’re going to leave our show needing a meal.

R: I love the heart of the piece. Whenever I see our leads perform I fall in love with them all over again as characters.

Empire runs from Jan. 22 – Feb. 14, 2016 at the La Mirada Theatre for the Performing Arts. For more information visit: www.lamiradatheatre.com or call 562.944.9801.